HHO FUEL CELL HONDA ON BBC TOP GEAR DEC 2nd 2007

What to do when we run out of Oil.
Plan ahead like these Brits. Buy a Hydrogen Fuel Cell vehicle.

@AvihooI Yes you do, and so what? And what do you mean by hydrogen as a raw material doesnt exist? Ofcourse it does :S

Right, which goes back to my original argument. You utilise hydrogen as a storing element – like a battery. In other words, hydrogen as a raw material doesn't exist.

@AvihooI Well you said it in words, "produce energy". Thats how I know.
Nuclear fusion or fission is far from impossible, but none of them creates energy like you said, they just transform it to electric energy. You cant exactly have a fusion powerplant in a car, so a combination of producing electricity on a fusionplant, then use that energy to create hydrogen, which we can fuel our cars would be the best solution once our techonology catches up with our ideas.

Right, where do you get this heat? Either direct sunlight, or by burning fossil fuels which have energy due to photosynthesis – also sunlight. Even the core of the Earth holds some heat due to sunlight (one could argue just how much). The only energy on Earth that isn't coming from the sun is pure mass, and to utilise it you employ nuclear fission or fusion (but that apparently is impossible). Seriously, what makes you think I mentioned creating energy? I've studied my mechanics long time ago.

@AvihooI And so in this case youll transform energy from for example say heat, into chemical energy, then into electric energy, then to kinetic energy and heat.

@AvihooI And the same laws apply on earth. There is no source of energy, energy can not be produced. Energy can only be converted into different forms. Im gonna keep repeating this until you stop saying "produce energy".
The thing is, to propel a car, you require energy, and that energy has to come from somewhere. And since you cannot create or destroy energy, youll always need to invest energy to put out energy.

You don't read, do you? I said a source of energy on EARTH. There's no energy coming into Earth other than sun light (or cosmic rays if you wish to count them). Nuclear fission uses MASS (which really is energy) to produce energy so it is also considered an energy source. Then there's the core of earth which also holds some heat (hence geothermal energy). But hydrogen in its pure form does NOT exist on Earth. In order to achieve pure hydrogen, you need to INVEST ENERGY.

@AvihooI Well, yes it is, cause there is no source of energy known to man anywhere in the universe. Energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed.

I think you misunderstood what I said. Hydrogen in its basic form is an ENERGETIC subtance – once you utilise it as fuel, it mixes with oxygen and turns into water. In order to to isolate hydorgen from water, you need to INVEST energy – this energy you use is later on the energy utilised when using hydrogen. So no, my logic isn't flawed. I am not saying hydrogen can't be good for STORING energy, but it's definitely not a SOURCE. A source of energy on earth is either sunlight or nuclear fission.

@AvihooI Your logic is flawed. It doesnt matter what energysource you use, the same energy put in will always be the same you get out. THAT is physics 101.

@Lillie1986 The energy you spend to seperate hydrogen from other elements is the energy you gain from hydrogen – physics 101. Therefore hydrogen as an energy source is NOT the most abundant element on earth.

@MJM153 Well naturally it will, but you can harness for example the weather, to make hydrogen, I think Honda has experimented with rainpowerd hydrogen stations on an island outside japan. You see you dont have to put man made energy in, to make hydrogen.

Sure it's more efficient, but it always has and always will take more energy to make hydrogen than it produces. Hydrogen is an intermediate, a method of storing energy, but it's not a free resource. As technology progresses, no doubt scientists will find even more efficient and less dangerous and less bulky mediums than hydrogen to use.
It's just an idea the public has latched onto. The future will probably feature an alternative fuel source, but i doubt it will be hydrogen.

@MJM153 Hydrogen is the most abundant element on earth also, its just a matter of separating it from the other elements it tends to unite with.
Batteries are VERY unclean to produce since they contain alot of enviromentaly hazardous materials like led etc. Also battery powerd cars are extremly ineffeicent.
The hydrogen talk is not bullshit, it will be the future.

wtf are you talking about you dubmass? Hydrogen does not exist as H2 gas in atmosphere. the only way you can get hydrogen is by breaking down water.

btw, "free" hydrogen means hydrogen that is not attached to any other element (like oxygen)

Not all catalysts are interchangable. Platinum used in catalytic converters is not a rare earth element and is relatively common. The elements that are being suggested for use in PEMs are not common. We could use other elements but it is a question of efficiency..

They use platinum in a catalitic converter in gasoline cars today and I don't see any problem geting it. Fuel cells are very easy to recycle and get that platinum back to be used again. And no, we wont run out platinum any time soon. It's not that rare you think it is. As technology goes up, they would find materials that are not so rare and are more efficient.

I drive a '09 Jetta Sportwagen TDI(diesel) ,fantastic car! And I have to agree with you. It is the same BS up here in Canada as the USA. All you see on the road is Assclowns driving CLOWN TRUCKS in Alberta! Bunch of F***TARDS!

yeah that's why i suggested supercapacitors which are way more efficient. the problem is with the hydrogen storage, it's large and bulky plus all car crashes in future will be car explosions rather than car fires, due to having such a reactive and explosive gas on-board.

The problem with a battery is low energy efficiency, but you make a good point about the catalyst required.

Also, the hydrogen is converted back to electricity through something called a proton-exchange membrane… this membrane is doped with a catalyst in the form of a rare earth element. If we dug up all the rare earth elements across the world, we still wouldn't have enough to power even a fraction of the number of petrol and deisel cars out there.. It's bullshit, get over it.

This whole hydrogen stuff is bullshit. sure it's be the most abundant element in the universe but it's not abundant on earth because it's too light to stay in the atmosphere. The way they make it is by running electricity through salt water which breaks the water up into hydrogen and oxygen. Where does the electricity come from? They say it'll be made using solar cells… wtf!? why not cut out the middle man and put the electricity in a battery or a supercapacitor rather than fuck about…

Hilarious american impression

yeah I agree, and he also likes cars that sound British, as far as you can call any car British these days, although that is a sad thing, they used to make a few pretty cars in the old days )